CONTROVERSIAL ARTICLE OF THE DAY: ‘WHERE IS THE BLACK OUTRAGE OVER THUSHA?’

Thusha Kamaleswaran was shot last year by gang members in Stockwell South London and left paralyzed.

Check out this controversial article written by journalist Nirpal Dhaliwal

Via The Evening Standard

This week’s report into last summer’s riots found that the shooting of Mark Duggan was apparently the last straw for a black community under siege from the Met and its stop-and-search tactics. But this week has also seen the conviction of three young black men for shooting a five-year-old girl, Thusha Kamaleswaran, through the spine in an attempted gangland hit.

The killing of a known criminal and gang member in Tottenham triggered an orgy of looting; many community leaders leapt to Duggan’s defence. Yet the paralysing of an innocent child hasn’t elicited a peep of condolence from such leaders, let alone outrage at those responsible. And not one pair of Nikes has been stolen in protest.

The two cases highlight the hypocrisy that frames our discussion of race and crime. About a thousand people attended Duggan’s funeral, as though his death were akin to the assassination of Martin Luther King. How many of them will contribute to Thusha’s appeal fund as she contemplates life in a wheelchair?

While there should be concern about and full accounting for any killing by the police, the black community should be more concerned about the chronic degree of gun crime committed by its own members — a primary reason for the police being armed in the first place. Continue Reading….

So basically what old Nirpal is saying here is that the entire black community is to blame for everything bad that happens in London and beyond.

Your thoughts please…

57 replies »

  1. This piece is purposefully proactive and does not even warrant a response! Any sensible, rational person knows that the rioters had no sympathy for the Duggan cause!!

    Were all of the rioters black?? What about the millionaire’s daughter? Why is he not calling for the millionaire middle class to make recompense?

    Nonsense!

  2. At first when I saw this article I thought surely this guy cannot be this stupid and such a simpleton in thought, can he? Is this Dhaliwal character a representation of the backwards and reprobate thinking of the Asian community as a whole? I hope not.

    Asians on the whole are funny characters. When they first came over to England, they were bredding up to the black man hard and joining with us to unite against the right wing groups who were attacking non whites and whites who associated with non whites, on the streets with no mercy. However, now that they have established themselves, it is not surprising how they are now distancing themselves from those very same black people who aided them in the earlier days of their settlement here.

    Firstly, I am not happy in the slightest that Thusha will not be able to walk again, in fact I am disgusted that she was an innocent victim in some gangland feud.

    However, I find it strange that Dhaliwal is not questioning where these guns are coming from to begin with. If he believes that a black man can walk through Heathrow with some firearms then I have a bridge to sell him. Let him begin a true investigation into who is distributing these weapons into the hands of black youngsters and very soon he would receive the all too familiar phonecall at midnight with the person on the other end telling him to terminate his investigation if he values his life and the lives of his family.

    The same HM Babylon that is oppressing black people in the UK through its enforcement mafia called the police, are the same chieftains responsible for putting these guns onto the streets in the first place.

    The Asian community do not need black people standing up for them, they have the ability to stand for themselves and they also have the money to fund any and all operations in relation to Thusha’s treatment, the black community doesn’t.

    So, if Dhaliwal had any intelligence, he should have been directing his frustrations at the so called European man for the 400 plus years of physical oppression and mind fragging we suffered at his hands, and then on top of that to be thrown into the wilderness afterwards with our minds completely battered to fend for ourselves. What behaviours you see in a minority of black people Dhaliwal is the product of some very serious oppression which still continues to this day I might add.

    A traumatised victim needs the space, time and the appropriate care and attention to recover from whatever experiences he/she has gone through. Yet when it comes to black people, have we ever been given our own space to recover from the mind job that slavery put on us? Have we ever been left alone and given the time to heal our wounds? No! This is the product of European oppression, aristocratic rich European men are responsible for blacks being able to get their hands on illegal firearms and blaze them in the streets.

    Let us deal with the real source of the problem eh Dhaliwal instead of stopping where it is convenient for your rant of vanity.

  3. Nirpal Dhaliwal with no respect you missed the outrage and the point, but then that was the point wasn’t it? one word CHEAP!!!

    The cruel shooting of the Asian child Thusha and the subsequent conviction of the scum this week of that vile act, was i suspect a welcome relief not only for the Asian family affected, but all those touched by these scum in Stockwell.. However I must admit that I was sadden and angered this Johnny come lately looking to make cheap capital of the back of this very emotive situation.

    The author [Nirpal Dhaliwal] of this vile article begs the question ‘where is the BLACK outrage over this shooting’, and for a split second I nearly fell into the same trap he obviously did and was about to agree with this fool, until that is I then recalled a number of key points that he conveniently forgot to mention and then glossed over in his commentary..

    Historically when there has been significant events in the so called ‘black community, like deaths in police custody of which there has been over 300 over the decades, no one has ever written where is the ASIAN outrage?

    When Steven Lawrence died 18 plus years ago equally I do not recall a similar call regarding the lack of an Asian response.

    I can recall as far back as Blair Peach, and his death and again I do not recall anyone making cheap points about the lack of an Asian input, or outrage, This despite the fact that every death and march by the African/Carribean community has led to significant changes to UK society, that without doubt benefited the SAME community who now seek to moan about the lack of a response over one recent shooting

    Further and for me this is the crucial point in all of this, the author of this vile article, makes the SAME mistake with his cheap points that the white community and the White media made over the Duggan inspired riots… The BLACK community per se did not rise up for this gangster, a small section of the Tottenham community Black & white did!! This is an important point, this Author behaves as if Duggan was our hero, friend to the so called BLACK community..Sir it wasn’t Asians I assure you that he intimidated, attacked or perhaps killed it was members of the BLACK community..

    The wide spread looting by hangers on and copy cats, were from BLACK & White people BORN and RAISED in the UK, and dare I say it from a small but specific socio economic section of the community.

    Most decent and right thinking African/Carribean people I spoke to or read were totally AGAINST the riots, [[ust read the responses on this forum for proof of that] similarly that same community were also against coming out in sympathy for that hoodlum.

    The community leaders highlighted by this author were not chosen or voted in by me or any other Black person that I know, to represent or speak my or our views..personally I’m fed up to the back teeth of people writing as if they were, only in the UK can someone stand without a mandate and be labeled a ‘leader’ for a whole culture who has never heard or seen said individual..it is totally lazy and insulting..

    Further David Lammy And Diane Abbott are duly elected MP’s for Tottenham & Hackney respectively which are not BLACK areas, they represent not BLACK people but people of a range of cultures who consistently voted them in, the fact is if many of us had a choice neither would be in power for various reasons.. But in any case they are members of the Labour party, last time I checked that was a UK based party supposedly for the WORKING CLASS of the UK, ASAIN, WHITE & BlACK.. not black only!! So how these fools can now be held up as BLACK opinion is simply beyond me..they represent Labour and their OWN opinion..ONLY!!!

    But putting all of this aside, the fool who wrote this cheap crap, and in my view disgusting article, really ought o have engaged his brain, before committing his vile thoughts to print.. The fact is decent Black families African & Caribbean have long been outraged, marching and in some cases campaigning for decades on the growing gun culture,and the media that clearly incites youth behavior and BLACK FAMILIES have been in fear for the lives of young black men and have been losing the LIVES of YOUNG BLACK MEN AND WOMEN for DECADES, we have been consistent in being outraged at the failures of successive governments, to stop imports of replica guns, to properly sentence those involved in violence and to attack the youth culture promoting what is actually a UNITED KINGDOM/WESTERN disease not a BLACK problem and if the AUTHOR had bothered to look at the range of those convicted from the riot, he would have seen the truth of the genesis of the Duggan Riots…

    However I would argue at what point over the decades when many of us have been arguing for a response, did this author or his cohort who share his vile point ever step up and stand shoulder to shoulder against New Labour or the coalition Government on this point?, don’t bother because we all know answer already.. Instead of running your mouth cheaply about the lack of black outrage.. Maybe the more pertinent question would have been to ASK why were THREE boys known to the police & the justice system not in prison? Have the Bottle to write an article asking this point and how decades after the start this issue has been allowed to get out of hand and name, names against those responsible then I’ll have some respect, but somehow I don t see that happening because it is much easier and safer to walk down a well worn path of blaming the wrong people coward!!!

  4. Let me first make it clear that my following statement may be seen as generalizing but that is not the case.

    With that said, where are the Asian protesters? Since when did our outrage and thus our vocal support matter to Asians? Aside from Islamophobia, when did our support matter in recent times? These are the same Asians that want to fight you when you remind them that as non-white people, we face a similar struggle.

    I made sure to include the first paragraph because it is exactly what this pseudo reporter did not do! Aside from ignoring facts, when did the action of a few black people speak for all of us? Oh yeah. I forgot I was in England for a minute.

    As Verbs said, it is easy to look at the men on the streets and exclusively associate guns and drugs with them. They are not your really problem. It’s the people in the highest parts of society keeping these problems persistent.

    I despise people like Nirpal because they speak from a place of authority and can therefore spew their lies without reprisal.

  5. Ermm is Nirpal paying any money to the white family members of the little girls that were groomed by a gang of Asian men. He may remember that being headline news only a few weeks ago. I don’t remember seeing any members of the Asian community marching in disgust about that.

    To compare the shooting of this poor child to the blatant cover up by the police of the Mark Duggan shooting, is clearly Nirpals way of clutching at straws.
    He references Duggans shady past, but fails to mention the fact that the family of Mark Duggan were rightly trying to find out the details of their son meeting his death. If the police were so certain of Mark being at fault for the shooting why did they LIE on numerous occasions about the details of the shooting.
    This is what the family and the community were angry about, yet another young black mans life taken by the very establishment that claim to be looking out for the interest of the public, yet the behave like the very criminals that they try to lock up!!

    I doubt very much he lives near Stockwell and knows the community (I live there)
    Let me tell you now, everyone was disgusted with the shooting. No one (Black, White or Asian) was in support of the gang members that shot Thusha.
    For once the police did their jobs in catching the men responsible for this, but they did NOT do their jobs properly in the case of Mark Duggan. To use these two cases as a like for like example, is totally ridiculous.
    Where he got this information from I will never know! This is the most baseless and tacky article I have read in a while. Clearly he has no idea of what he is talking about, as I always say if your don’t know what you are saying SHUT THE FUCK UP!!

  6. Nirpal Dhaliwal is currently residing in Delhi and is a freelance journalist,and a novelist who’s book had mixed reviews. He most probably wants to make it back to London and so is jumping on the bandwagon thinking this rubbish article will bring him back!. But hopefully people with commonsense will see through this and leave him in Delhi.

  7. Nirpal should have a seat like meera syal or whatever her name is. You do not represent me or my community so jog on and get your people to march against the atrocities in your community.

  8. I have a feeling that this article was released purposely to cause racial agitation between Blacks and Asians. It seems very suspicious to me that currently in the US, the presses are rolling at full pelt at the same time in relation to the killing of Trayvon Martin, a young black boy gunned down by George Zimmerman(JewISH) for no apparent reason. I wouldn’t be surprised if more racially charged articles begin to surface in the near future.

  9. It’s the same as me saying Nirpal Dhaliwal is a terrorist that is going to kill thousands!!! the whole of his article was a shambles had no valid points. I saw the riots in Peckham with my own eyes and I watched the news coverage from the first night to the last night of the riots I saw plenty of Asians, Jews, Whites and Blacks taking part in them…. I don’t believe any riot was started over Mark Duggan a protest yes but people was not rioting on his behalf they just saw an opportunity to get free stuff! Nirpal Dhaliwal is using this article to make a dig at the black community! – Gun and Knife crime is a major problem in the UK on a whole not just in London and not just in the black community! Recently a white blind guy in his late 30’s was stabbed to death by a 15yr old boy who was also white in Hertfordshire it wasn’t reported in any mainstream papers only in the local paper! Why? because the media don’t want people to believe this is happening within every race and every community. The same thing happened during the riots a huge media blackout occurred! Anyone watching the Tottenham riots will know that throughout that the Jewish community came out in force throwing rocks and petrol bombs at the police! then the media blacked out and you never saw or heard anything more about them!

    Nirpal Dhaliwal needs to focus on his Asian community and the major issues within that Terrorism, Honour Killings, Grooming / rape of Western girls before he criticizes a whole race!

  10. Terra :
    Ermm is Nirpal paying any money to the white family members of the little girls that were groomed by a gang of Asian men. He may remember that being headline news only a few weeks ago. I don’t remember seeing any members of the Asian community marching in disgust about that.
    To compare the shooting of this poor child to the blatant cover up by the police of the Mark Duggan shooting, is clearly Nirpals way of clutching at straws.
    He references Duggans shady past, but fails to mention the fact that the family of Mark Duggan were rightly trying to find out the details of their son meeting his death. If the police were so certain of Mark being at fault for the shooting why did they LIE on numerous occasions about the details of the shooting.
    This is what the family and the community were angry about, yet another young black mans life taken by the very establishment that claim to be looking out for the interest of the public, yet the behave like the very criminals that they try to lock up!!
    I doubt very much he lives near Stockwell and knows the community (I live there)
    Let me tell you now, everyone was disgusted with the shooting. No one (Black, White or Asian) was in support of the gang members that shot Thusha.
    For once the police did their jobs in catching the men responsible for this, but they did NOT do their jobs properly in the case of Mark Duggan. To use these two cases as a like for like example, is totally ridiculous.
    Where he got this information from I will never know! This is the most baseless and tacky article I have read in a while. Clearly he has no idea of what he is talking about, as I always say if your don’t know what you are saying SHUT THE FUCK UP!!

    I agree with you 100%

  11. Lot of rubbish responses to Dhaliwal’s article.
    Some comments are absolutely stupid and ignorant and smack of jealousy,undue rage and viciousness.Too much bias and prejudice as usual against the South Asian community. There are certainly weaknesses among a certain section of the South Asian community but that is a different issue and has a political bias to it. But these people do not trouble others and terrorise communities by looting and stealing or even stabbing that has become a major issue of today’s life in London.
    The arguments here are too defensive as they lack credibility. You guys are trying to duck the issue. Why don’t you just be honest and admit saying : ‘ Yes there is a serious problem of gang violence among the youth of our community. We have to do something about it.’

    A Black Youth leader in Hackney came out most honestly on TV after the riots last year by admitting this shocking truth. He even went as far as to say that Yes,there is a serious problem in Black family social life. Only when we tackle its roots can we solve this whole situation’.
    It’s been officially proved that 80% Afro-Caribbean children are brought up by single mothers or by their grandmothers. When there is no father guidance how do we expect a child to learn firm discipline and honour in life? This is is a social problem and has to be tackled from its roots.

    Going back to history how long are we going to put the blame on the ‘oppression of the blacks by the white man ‘ although it is a harsh reality that will never be erased from history
    In fact this oppression is still going on all around the world in a subtle form through invasions ,massacres and capturing of resources of rich non-white countries.

    Today a black man leads the most powerful white nation in the world. What more do you want?

    So are we going to sit down and justify the crimes of our youth and look the other way because they are one of us.?! A crime is a crime no matter who commits it.

    Dhaliwal is not wrong . He is urging the black communjity to look into this serious problem.Not defend it giving some absurd reason or run away from it.

    Just take into account the recent spate of killings by stabbing in the streets of London. Who commits these crimes so mindlessly?
    Be honest and ask yourself this question. Learn to listen with wisdom and act with impunity to solve this terrifying situation instead of idly defending yourselves with false excuses.

    Criticism should be taken with intelligence and not with wild emotional rage and prejudice.

    When it comes to fighting for human justice it is gratifying to note that there are South Asians,afro-caribbeans,Africans and whites standing together during conferences and debates. It is wrong for one minority community to be biased against another.

    A classic example was seen in Birmingham recently when during the terrible riots three British Pakistani youth were run over deliberately by a car driven by a black man. These youth were merely standing before the petrol station to guard their community . All three died on the spot. The wife of one of the young lad was four months pregnant and was waiting for her husband to come back home. The father of one of the youth used his wisdom and stopped acts of reciprocation by his community. This was very noble of him and magninimous. Just imagine if it was the other way round? One dreads to even think of it.
    Then the story of the Malaysian youth who came to study in this country. His jaw was broken by a black man for no reason and he was despicably robbed. This time it was a black man as well as a white man. So you have to understand that there is something radically wrong with the thinking of this community.

    The black community must come together and seriously do something to save their reputation instead of making lame excuses based oin false explanations.
    This can be done by preaching in schools. In youth centres . Muslims do it in the Mosques where the youth learn the values of life and respect towards each other.
    Black Churches must do the same thing.

    To start with apologise to the parents of the litte angel like girl who did not deserve to be in this physical state.

  12. All this coming from a man who belongs to a selfish and insular community who rarely come out in support of others outside of their own community.

  13. Rezan why should the whole Black Community come out and apologise for an act committed by 3 people! -____- the parents of the 3 individuals should apologise or the 3 people that shoot the little girl should apologize but a whole race is not to blame for the actions of 3 people!

    Did the White Community come out and apologize for the Death of Stephen Lawrence? Did the Asian community come and apologise for the death of the Laura Wilson who was a white Girl killed by two Asian males?

    Did the Asian community protest against the rapid increase of Grooming and rapes of young western females that are happening at the hands of Asian men?

    NO is the Answer

    Yes Gun & knife crime is a major concern in the UK but again it’s not just amongst the Black Community that this is an issue if you go to places like Manchester / Hertfordshire / Glasgow you will find the same thing happening but amongst different communities / cultures.

  14. Rezan you are talking absolute NONSENSE but I don’t expect any better from a racist. I’d like you to point out where anybody has “made lame excuses” for certain crimes commited by people we have never met. Do you know the Asian men that were grooming young girls? Did you apologise on their behalf? If you did you might need to shout a little louder because nobody heard it! You might also want to apologise for my friends brother that is continually in and out of prison for burglary and muggings for the past 13 years, he’s Asian btw and no his friends are not Black. I went to school in Wembley where majority of my school was Asian, that high horse you are sitting on is imaginary. Our school was broken into on numerous occassions with computers stolen, guess who did it? Are you going to apologise and have a meeting to sort this out? My Asian friend was beaten to the ground and mugged…by an Asian, feel free to apologise..

    Are you also going to sit on your unicorn and pretend Asians werent rioting?? Really? I could name a few but seeing as you’re not going to apologise on their behalf..get your eyes checked mate, even with the biased media I STILL managed to see all races rioting. You have used this as an opportunity to get things off your chest, you have no real valid points to make and contribute nothing. You really shouldnt want our support if we’re such low lifes eh. You’ve had far more support from US then we have had from YOU so jog on with your nonsense. What more do we want?? Who are you to ask that question? We’re supposed to be grateful that a MIXED RACE man is in the white house, it didn’t stop you being a racist did it? It didn’t stopt you expecting us to take the blame for every single crime commited did it? It hasn’t stopped the MET from killing people then conjuring up stories has it? I just wasted precious time replying to your ego sat on a unicorn.

  15. I would guess there would be high rates of divorce and single parents in the asian community, but there is not because if a asian woman protests about a bad marriage she is beaten, intimidated, and may be even killed. so I would if I had all those odds against stay in a bad relationship or commit suicide. Which is why Asian women have the highest suicide rate in the UK. We talk about our issues and try to find solutions, your community is a wall of silence.

  16. The article & people like rezan are employed by the government to spark racial tension among the very people who joined TOGETHER and protested in this country, whether it was after the Mark Duggan protest or the student riots.

    Ignore them.

  17. I read Rezans response whilst at the gym this morning and to be honest I was so mad I nearly left the gym immediately to come home and throw down on this fool… People it is now official stupidity has become endemic in some parts of the Asian community..

    Rezan dear boy if I may, allow me to point out some simple point for your further reflection…

    1.jealousy what have we, the so called ‘Black’ community have to be ‘jealous’ about pray tell? Why would you even bring such a baseless childish, immature point into what is supposed to be a serious debate.. Why do people like you imagine that owning shops and having money is the only baseline for ‘success’? It isn’t and even if it were I and other people of African decent are not jealous of imbeciles like you, your comments is not just offensive, it is offensive to your own point, because you cheapen yourself and the Aftermath of that cruel event by resorting to such a cheap shot!!

    2.‘Defensive’ the other lazy buzz word thrown out by this imbecile, sorry but since when was correcting an obvious and lazy point considered defensive.. This nothing but yet another poor attempt to shut down legitimate response to your lazy and offensive comments.. The simple point is that the so called black community is NOT monolithic, what part of that is so hard to comprehend, it would be like saying that all Asians look alike or saying that all Muslims are terrorist!!

    3.Black youth leaders & communality leaders’ only in England can someone with these titles be afforded the kudos and the expertise to not only speak for ALL blacks, regardless if we know these gits or not, Only in England can people with such titles be afforded credibility to be ‘experts on my cultures.. Pray tell what credential does a community leader, or a youth leader have to be an expert on the black family? Does this person have a PHd?, Did these people complete in-depth research to back up these claims? Does being a youth leader somehow give these people or anyone else the insight to speak for all BLACK no matter where they stand in the UK? The answer to all of theses Obvious question is of course NO.. otherwise why dont we just defer to these ‘experts’ to make social policy for EVERYONE if they are soo insightful?

    Really Rezan just because someone appears on TV and spouts uninformed, unintelligent shite, this does not an expert make..

    4.Rezan now demands that we the Black community look into this violence as if somehow decent black people (a) condone such madness and (b) as if we all raise our children to become hoodlums.. what a fucking cheek!! I wonder how this fool would feel if I made the same suggestion about Asians, and then demanded that Asians take responsibility for the terrorist of 7/7, if I then asked all Asians to blindly to take responsibility for their actions and to then apologies for the lost of life and fear that these scum inflicted on that day.. Rezan would quite rightly tell me to go to hell, and I wont mince word by telling him to do just that!!!

    5. Rezan no one DERSERVES to be injured, maimed, or killed, and I for one will not APOLOGISE for something I did not do or was not involved in.. It is Not my role or my place to take responsibility for people I do not know or for crimes I was not involved in, this problem you lazy illiterate person is not a BLACK issue, and that is the clear point that you and the author of that vile article missed..

    It is a UK problem, that is not being DEFENSIVE, its stating a simple FACT, these hoodlums are not acting out BLACK culture, but Western culture promoted via the western media, I venture that all the people you Blame for the problems have never ventured beyond their post code, and I also argue strongly that it is NOT an issue of single parenthood, because i’m damn sure if research were done, more than half in Prison had BOTH parents present in their lives

    If only it were that simple, it would be an easy to fix..it is also very disingenuous to suggest that this issue of gang criminality is limited to just the BLACK community, when I know for a fact that ALL communities with 2nd and 3rd generation children of former immigrants have this as a growing problem.. Or are you now going to suggest that there are no Asian gangs, no Asian criminals, when I know as a fact from my days in youth justice that is simply NOT true!!

    6.You Rezan are falling into the same trap, the same lazy analysis, the same baseless conclusion that has gotten this problem to the stage where it is now, and if people like you had listened to those of us who argued long and hard against such lazy people like you make such lazy points, we simply wouldn’t have the epidemic we have today.

    if you really want to apportion want blame then look in the mirror and reflect on why it is people like you voted in first Labour and now Con/Dem Governments who have done little of nothing to correct very obvious failures.. Start by asking yourself simply this, why were three hoodlums on the street when they had been caught, convicted and sentenced for violence against the BLACK culture you think owes you an apology? If they had been dealt with and properly managed properly ask yourself would that child be crippled today, then ask yourself who really is to BLAME and WHO REALLY owes the apology fool?

  18. Dear rezan,

    You need check history before you start spouting verbal excrement ,time has come journalists like you were made to give account for statements and comments you make in the name of free speech. This will only incite division and prejudice within communities especially if you dont live there. We need responsible journalism in this day as there are enough negative media about . Stephen Lawrence Damilola Taylor and Anthony Walker to name just a few. I didnt see the asian community rise up in arms or go on marches to raise money or awarness. Yet you will gladley take our money for you food shops ,taxis and market stalls yet you wont employ us. You need to check yourselves. You go to Carribean and Afrika and set up shop but you wont buy from us. Oh yes did you watch Empire recently aired on the good ole’ bbc get the dvd divide and rule man divide and rule. Peace for all our communities and Blessings to all fallen Brothers and Sisters home and abroad RIP Trayvon.

  19. The attack that left Thusha paralysed was not random or rare. It is a regular occurance specifically within our inner city communities. It was a symptom of a rot amongst our young and a decline in our parenting standards.

    I don’t think there was enough outrage expressed by our community on this shooting. Yes we should all pay for this girl’s treatment because as a community we have nurtured these pitbulls in our bosom and then sent them out to destroy others.

    Im speaking as someone with cousin’s in prison for doing nothing nice and their children now roaming the streets fatherless – waiting to repeat the cycle.

    There’s nothing to be achieved with the wanton child spawning that passes for parenting in this country. Yes its now in all communities but it’s a million times worse in ours and is compounded by a lack of identity and the racist society that we live in. These fatherless young men will mostly grow up to menace the rest of us much like their horrid dogs.

    I am married to a wonderful black man and am raising a wonderful black son in an African country. I don’t have issues with the wonderful black men I work alongside and meet on a daily basis. But they mostly have strong family connections, a deep sense of responsibilty and identity and respect for others. They are nothing like some of the weak, insecure, rootless black men I have encountered in the UK.

    Deny it all you like – point to the problem of Asian rapists but the fact is that we ourselves have a BIG problem. Nirpal is just voicing the frustrations of Asians who shopkeepers who work on the frontline of this violence. re: Mark Duggan, he shouldn’t be compared with Trayvon Martin. He was a gangster not an innocent teenager (not to excuse his death).

    I’m the product of a single mother and a father who walked away, so I’m not superior. I’m just weary of the defensive rhetoric and the anti-gun crime campaigns that glorify the very people who promote this aggressive urban culture amongst our young. It hasn’t achieved anything. What we need to do is look at how to stop the cycle of child spawning and self-hate and low self esteem. Then maybe we can look forward to a generation that doesn’t take out its problems on the rest of society.

  20. Sorry guys. Nobody said all members of the black community are violent and carry guns and knives etc. I was just sticking to the point in the article,To the response made by almost all of you to Dhaliwal’s article. All this guy was asking is where was the human passion from the black community (that showed such a spectacular display of unity and sorrow when Mark Duggan was shot dead.)when this innocent child became a victim of such mindless violent behaviour.
    Well let’s discuss this as Londoners and not narrow ourselves to any particular community. And for God’s sake let’s call a spade a spade. Your comments about the South Asian community are out of context. This is not the discussion. Just stick to the argument. I agree with you when you say there are bad apples in every community and it is the duty of the respective community to see that the entire community is not perceived as a problem. ‘Black community is not a monolith’. Totally agree. The biggest division is the Afro-Caribbean community and the African community which began appearing in this country at a rapid rate only since twenty years-25 years. The African community mostly Nigerians took advantage of the educational opportunities of this country and really made good in a short span.Ghanians are a very hard working community. They are also business minded. The Sierra Leonese are good in administrative work and are humble by nature.The list goes on. These African communities one must admit went a long way to encourage and act as mentors for the Afro-Caribbean community who have been living a good hundred years before they arrived.
    But the question here is in spite of the free education offered by this country and all facilities to encourage it why did the Afro-Caribbean community fail. They got exactly the same opportunities ,the same facilities the same protection from the state. So why did they fail? Why are many of them so violent? This is the issues we have to address instead of running away from it. There is something wrong with the way of family life. These kids have no influence from their fathers as they do not see them.Many leave school early, grow up under the influence of drugs,get involved in crime hyped by rap music glorifying idol worship and bizarre poetry. These young men revel in this ‘education’ and fare pretty well. Using guns and knives becomes normal to them and getting in and out of prison becomes a routine way of life; The three gunmen who happened to be the cause of Tusha’s tragic state of life were a mix of both African and Afro-Caribbean youth. This has become an unfortunate reality. The parents of African children are far more responsible as far as family life is concerned. In fact there is not much difference between the African and South Asian communities as far as this is concerned. But now the scene in London is changing. Black community likes to be labelled as Black and not otherwise. The names of many gangsters sound African as well as West Indian. So with all arguments for and against there is certainly a problem of gang violence ,guns and knives among the youth in the Black community of London. The muggings , stabbings and killings are all done all by the black youth and black youth alone.

    There seems to be a total disregard and contempt for other communities and an air of open arrogance exhibited by these black gangster youth. To them all that matters is their own ego and their blackness. The rest is all humbug.

    Coming to the Asian problem. Somebody mentioned there is crime among some Asian youth in the north of the country . It certainly is. Criminal behaviour among youth is a consequence of family breakdown or irresponsibility of parents. There is nobody to guide them. They join bad company because they have nothing better to do.. Their society then disowns them. Asians can be pretty serious people when it comes to traditions and good behaviour. In fact at least most of them are pretty serious about life itself. Those who do not ,face a terrible fate like landing in prisons etc.Asians insist on family values. Religious teachings too are playing a highly important role . Those who go against them pay the price eventually.
    Another highly important thing. The South Asian community too are not a monolith. There is a huge difference among them because of their religious beliefs. Hindus who form the majority do not like the Muslims who have a universal attitude to life. To any Muslim ASian Islam comes first . They feel more at home with any Muslim of any country rather than with a Hindu in spite of him being a South Asian. Their relationship is fractured.The Bangladeshi community thinks more in terms of ‘bengaliness’ rather than anything else. These are language fanatics.The Pakistanis are an interesting combination of roughness,valour and education. They consider the Hindus ‘sneaky’ and ‘sucking up to the whites’. The Sikhs and th4e Pakistanis have the commonness of language between them but a terrible difference of history and religion.Still Sikhs are a little more easy going than the rest. Dhaliwal is a Sikh from his name.
    The Sri Lankan Tamils have a double crossing opportunist nature and do not fit into the South Asian community psyche at all. No doubt they are pretty enterprising people but extremely clannish. In fact they feel like total strangers when compared to Indians,Pakistanis,Bangladeshis and Sikhs. But on the whole all these communities are hard working and make sure their children pursue higher education at all costs. In other words they all have a very high sense of responsibility and ambition. So we cannot blame them for their success.
    Also one point . All Asian communities especially in London are not business-minded or are materialistically well off. In fact many members of the black community are far well off than them. Many Pakistanis and Bangladeshis live in poor housing conditions and without much hope for better life. So get the idea out of your heads that all South Asians are doing just fantastically well in this country. But have you heard of them resorting to crimes like mugging and shooting or stabbing? At least they have the fear of religion and are united when it comes to Islam. Unfortunately Christianity nor the Churches have found a way to reform the black youth. Things are getting bad to worse day by day. Haven’t we seen enough stabbings by blacks on black gangs. The Damilola story is a case in point.

    Burying your heads in the sand will not solve the problem guys. You have to go into the roots and causes and determine yourselves to solve it.
    Act not like cry babies and face up to the harsh reality.

  21. Western culture which rezan and nirpal embrace loves the blame game. Point – the young men who committed the crimes are solely responsible. Maybe the Asian community should thank the original target who told the police who the criminals were. But that would mean thanking a black person for bringing justice to an asian right? Is that the attitude we should have?

    The question which was mentioned above which rezan has glossed over is – why were these boys free on the streets based on the knowledge the law courts and justice system has on them.

  22. Rezan. You have just labeled numerous nations based on your opinion, you’re not an expert on any of them but good attempt at trying to keep your superiority complex intact. Tamils are double crossing? I have a Tamil friend I’d like you to say this to. “So get the idea out of your heads that all South Asians are doing just fantastically well in this country. But have you heard of them resorting to crimes like mugging and shooting or stabbing?” Don’t flatter yourself. I just told you my Asian friend’s brother has spent his lifetime mugging and breaking into cars/homes. Something wrong with your eyesight? Sikh and Muslim gangs are not playing hopscotch with each other. How dare imply that family values are not important to a particular group. It didn’t seem too important to the Asian girls in my school climbing out of windows to go and smoke in the park while I was at home doing my homework. Weren’t so important when they were selling drugs on the school field. I guess I should convince you’re all the same but I won’t because I was raised better than that and my ego doesn’t need anything from self righteous ill informed bigots.

  23. The brazeness of the asian community in joining the queue to point the finger at black people can be unbelievable and hypocritical at times.

    The so called Negro has always been the media and societal scape goat to sacrifice time and time again so that whites, asians and other nationalities can puff out their chests in deluded vanity and feel better about themselves looking down on others.

    How can you Rezan tell a black man what arguments are and are not valid in relation to his present state based upon experiences that we’ve suffered and you haven’t? You see the arrogance and pride manifesting here people, where other nations feel that they have the right to dictate to us what reasons we can and can’t use to explain the breakdown of our community. What they are really trying to say here is “we know more about black people than black people do”.

    So yes, I can go back into history and pull up our raw past and use it as a reason because it not only is one but we as black people should know the roots of the problem first before others right? You should be taking note not trying to step in as some sort of professor of all knowledge.

    Obama is only a puppet first and foremost, he is still being controlled by whitey and secondly his heritage is mostly White and Arab, he has only 6% black in his blood. If he steps out of line and tries to do his own thing, he will get what happened to John F Kennedy.

    No one is defending what these 3 guys done, they are scum however, you would be wise to remove the huge beam out of your community’s eye first before you go pointing the finger at others as the Asian community is no sparkling brass monkey by a long shot. I could begin to rattle of the troubles that you have within your own quarters, some of the practices which are quite frankly rancid and abominable.

    The media always pulls the black man out of the hat when it comes to crime, haven’t you notice the pattern yet? Why in particular were blacks singled out in the riots when every Tom, Dick and Harry was involved from ALL NATIONS? Answer, the usual bias of the mainspin media against the so called Negro. Nothing has changed.

  24. Mark Duggan was shot dead by police, and that was the reason for the small outrage that later turned into riots allover. His family and other sympathetic members started asking questions, then it got out of hand after that. The rest of the riots had nothing to do with Mark Duggan’s death. This girl was shot by gang members, something that happens to all people of all races, even black on black. So, this is not just a special case, it is something that happens, more often than the writer of that article seems to know or want to know. And no one knows this better than black people, because they are the ones who are the most victims of this crimes. Although i understand that every single death impacts people differently, but everyone who dies has lost a life, and the families who have lost have all suffered an irreplaceable loss. I don’t understand why the black community should be outraged. I would understand if he had come out and said that the Asian community should be outraged. When something like this happens in the black community, let us say if the police kills a black person, it is the black community that is outraged, not the white community. No one ever blatantly asks other races to be outraged but why should we be asked to do so. Obviously there are things that really tick us off and for a good reason. Not to say that other things are not important or equally important, but that there are certain things that just seem to tick us off. We have plenty of things to deal with, so does every community, and every community picks and chooses what it is that they will get outraged over.

    And just because black people don’t come out and get outraged for everyone to see or hear, does not mean that they are not sympathetic to the situation. To say and imply that is utterly ridiculous.

  25. Your arguments are so illogical people. The argument here is not about Black history. Or who is better Asian or Black. It is a discussion of what is actually happening in our society of Londoners. No matter which way you argue you cannot dismiss the terror and reality of black gangs in London. In all fairness nobody is denying the wrong behaviour of South Asian youth too. But then the question is which South Asian community.The Hindus and Sikhs cannot be compared to the Pakistanis and the Bangladeshis because of the total difference in religious beliefs and culture. This is a vast subject and requires a very long explanation which is not possible in this situation.
    What is most tragic is that black youth are stabbing black youth. Black youth are shooting black youth. They are in the possession of firearms and knives. This is frightening and certainly gives a feeling of insecurity to the unwary citizen of this city. We see stories of stabbings and killings almost every week and in almost every case black gangs are involved. One simply cannot deny this. But by bringing out the truth it does not mean that one is targeting black community because they are simply black. This is self pity or ‘chip on the shoulder’ attitude. You have to get over this attitude.Unless we admit there is a problem in our community we can never hope to change it. According to most of the arguments seen here one notices a strange kind of justification for these crimes. e’g. black history,black oppression by whites,colonisation etc. This certainly explains history but does not give today’s answer.
    For some reason or other the white community favours blacks and looks with prejudice at the south Asian in general. Sometimes it is horrifying to note that blacks and whites get together to hate and mock at the South Asian.
    I do not wish to say this but my whole family has a victim of mugging in different instances. During all these instances black people were involved. I was mugged and beaten many years ago by a black man when i was working in a shop. A gun was pointed at me and fortunately the trigger was not pulled.
    Very recently a cell phone was robbed from a white girl who ran after the assailant who happened to be black. Some years ago an Asian youth was kicked to death by a gang of black youth at the Notting Hill carnival just because he looked different. Very recently a Malaysian student had his jaw broken by a black man during the riot mood. The poor kid was merely passing by with his bike. Luckily he was caught and he is now in prison. Why did he break the poor boy’s jaw and later robbed him? Perhaps he did not look black. Or maybe he looked Asian.This was racism which is very rampant in the black community. Two black men were in the car that deliberately ran over over three Pakistani British youth in Birmingham that killed them instantly. This was blatant pre-meditated murder.The father of one of the youth forgave them and wanted no revenge. This was an act of magnanimity which one has to admire. Imagine if it was the other way around? Hell would have broken loose. This happened during the riots again. How many examples do you want me to give you?
    Talking about riots please do not say that rioters came from all communities. Yes. but these were very few. The majority were a good 85% black. This is the unfortunate truth.

    Yes truth is bitter but one has to taste it.for the sake of justice and reason.

  26. I think Nirpal makes some valid points, BUT black people should not be categorised as one monolithic group. This is very stupid. I feel so sorry for that little girl. Those evil men who have curtailed her life should be locked up…permanently.

  27. @Rezan

    But again, how can you as a non black stand there and tell me that my people’s history has nothing to do with our present state? What, do you know more about black people than black people themselves then? Black people and Asian people have DIFFERENT HISTORIES, you would be wise to remember that.

    You have no idea of the mechanisms that have been put in place to obstruct and hinder the so called Negro in this country, you simply have no clue of the struggles of a black man within western society, so you cannot throw out solutions and pretend to be the master of all knowledge in relation to blacks and their issues, you have no right and no foundation to do so.

    What you are saying about not comparing the Hindus and Sikhs to the Pakistanis and Bangladeshis may hold some validity however, you all do share one thing in common, brown nosing and bredding up to the European man. Your people love the white man despite the fact that he has destroyed your homelands and turned your once prosperous nations into squaller and poverty. Why the love towards Europeans despite his crimes against you, because in the west you have on the whole financially prospered under his system.

    WHERE ARE THE GUNS COMING FROM REZAN???? Why will you not deal with that question? You seem to be wanting to deal with the symptoms but not the cause. If you are so worried about black on black crime then you should really be looking into who is supplying all of these weapons to the young black youth.

    We have always been targeted, I have never in my entire history on this planet seen the media call out Asian gangs as they have black ones, never. No, it is not strange for something in our distant past to be related to current events today, again, you didn’t go through what black people went through so you are in absolutely no position to declare what is relevant to the cause from what is not. What you can say is you do not “feel” that our history is part relevant to our current situation, but that is as far as you can take it.

    You can erect all of these examples of blacks mugging, beating up and robbing people in this country however, I can on the flip side talk about how black people are treated among YOUR people in your homeland. You really do not want me talk about the Siddis and the untouchables and the barbaric treatment they receive at the hands of your people. Lets just stop here because where you can raise case after case in relation to blacks as criminals in the west, I in like manner can raise you many cases of your people treating blacks like trash elsewhere in the world. Like I said before, your people are far from a shining brass monkey.

    85% black rioters??? Who exactly was executing the tallying, the same Europeans that have given the so called Negro the rough end of the stick from day one. I personally do not believe anything that comes out of the mainstream media. As if now they can be trusted. Have you forgotten, Weapons of mass destruction, Bin Laden accused of orchestrating 9/11 but yet he was a CIA asset yet the mainstream media didn’t tell us that part. Let’s not even talk about the 7/7 London bombings. I do not doubt that most of the rioters were black but I am not taking information from the mainstream media without confirming its accuracy 10 times over.

    You keep bringing up those Pakistanis who were killed by a black man and how the father has forgiven the blacks. Not in a long shot mac, Pakistanis are just biding their time until the right moment, they haven’t forgiven anybody, they have simply back filed the event and will seek revenge for it at a later date. I used to hang about with Pakistani people and the disdain and hatred they have for black people is immeasurable.

  28. Verbs2012.
    For your kind information I’ve read Black history,South Asian History, Middle East Hstory,North African History during my University life. My general reading was books like Alex Hayley’s ‘Roots,. Also Eldrich Cleaver’s ‘Soul on Ice”,Malcolm X the unabridged version of which I read more than once, ‘Native Son by Richard Wright, Alex Baldwin’s ‘Go tell it to the mountain and ‘ The Fire Next Time’ . I also was a great admirer of Black American revolutionaries like Stokely Carmichael,Rap Brown Angela Davies and a few more.
    Apart from this when I wrote an essay on ‘The Algerian Revolution’ I referred intensely to Franz Fannon. ‘The Wretched of the Earth’ Black Skin,White Mask and many more.
    So a little knowledge is a dangerous thing my friend. You hardly knew anything about me when you accused me of being ignorant of black history. I probably know it more than you do. The names I mentioned were great Black people. These were intellectuals who fought for a cause. Fought against opprression. Fought for liberation of their people. These were simply great people.They fought for your liberty.
    And what are you doing today? You are defending thugs and murderers who are in no way should even be connected to these great people. Do these thugs and killers even their own history? If they did they would respect these great souls and become responsible citizens in any country they live.
    You think I do not know what white racism is? I have been a victim of it all my life. I have stood up to the white man by looking into his eyes and saying he is wrong. I have made him apologise to me. During the colonisation era it was the Muslims who defied the criminal British rulers of that time by seeking recourse to violence in asking them to leave the sub-continent. Gandhi of course aided to a certain extent but he got all the credit. The same scenario is repeated till today. Muslim countries are being invaded ,its millions bombed,maimed or displaced using some pretext or other. They have been after Afghanistan since a hundred years and have now joined their cousins across the continent to bomb these poor people. You think I love them.
    You have only exhibited your unfortunate ignorance in not even distinguishing Muslims from Hindus. It is the Hindus who suck up to the Whites. Not us. This is why we hate them. I’ve embraced hundreds of black Muslim Africans in my life but do not remember having embraced one Hindu. Such is the difference. So get some knowledge before you speak.
    Are you trying to tell me that blacks do not stick to Whites. I see them all the time together. They seem to love you more than they love us.
    Guess you use the Christian card rather skilfully.
    Let me tell you something my friend. In this country you can easily get away with the word ‘Paki’ but will be probably prosecuted if the word ‘nigger’ is hurled at someone.. Both blacks and Jews are well protected in this country. I’ve been called ‘Paki’ more often by Backs than Whites when I first moved into this country. This really broke my heart. I was shocked at the unruliness ,the lack of respect,the arrogance,the non acceptance of other communities as communities at all. All my admiration for the blacks civil rights movement and the history hovered ominously before me as a I asked myself the question. Am I being too naive? These blacks are certainly not the same people in black history are they?’
    This is why I make the point of irrelevance of black history today. The American blacks and the South African blacks have a history to boast of. You cant compare them to the British blacks of today. They have nothing to do with them.

    I know the white man’s game pretty well too. Hiis slimy divide and rule game too.

    Whatever it be one has to admit the rights and wrongs of any society or community one lives in instead of adopting an arrogant attitude of denial.
    All you have to say is ‘Yes there is a problem and we must rectify it’

    There is a saying in the Quran: ‘The sinner will never feel any remorse for his sins;because his heart is already dead’

    So please don’t let your heart die!

    Good luck and Peace be the order of the day.

  29. 85% of the rioter were Black? Really Rezan? I didn’t want to get involved and I tried to refrain from having any sort of dialogue with an individual who clearly has a personal grudge and lack of knowledge of the ”Black community” he pretends to know so well, but this bullshit you were mouthing off about my people provoked me to step in and refute your nonsense.

    85% huh?

    ”MoJ figures revealed that, where ethnicity was recorded, 33% of those appearing in the courts on riot-related charges were white, 43% were black and 7% Asian. The figures varied significantly from area to area, often closely resembling the ethnic makeup of the local population: in London, 32% of defendants were white, in Merseyside, the figure was 79%.”

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/dec/05/who-were-the-rioters

    While I was trailing through stats on race, I came across a interesting article.

    ”One in four men accused of ‘street grooming’ underage girls for sex is Asian, a shocking report reveals.
    In total, 2,379 offenders are suspected of attempting to lure vulnerable victims, often using drugs and alcohol, over the past three years.
    And a ‘disproportionate’ 28 per cent of them were found to be Asian, in those cases where ethnicity was recorded. The ethnic group makes up just six per cent of the UK population.”

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2009455/Child-sex-study-Quarter-offenders-Asian-men.html#ixzz1qYjYpwh7

    So if my calculations are correct, Asians are 21 times more likely to groom/rape underage girls than Whites. Very interesting.

    What you need to understand is it’s not that we as Black people are not aware and concerned with the violent and appalling behaviour of some young Black men within out ranks, we just take offence to an outsider who thinks he’s qualified in making sweeping judgments about us when his own community is far from perfect. Clean up your own house before you speak on others.

    As for the rampant racism in the ”Black community” you speak of, PLEASE. As one person here stated earlier, all this is coming from a man who belongs to a selfish and insular community who rarely come out in support of others outside of their own community.

    Some of the most savage and brutal racial attacks on British soil have been committed at the hands of Asians. How about you google the name Kriss donald.

  30. Rezen is a troll. End of story.

    Even if he had valid points everything goes out the window when “85% of rioters were black” is said.

    There is nothing you can say to people like him. You can give facts all day but it wouldn’t matter.
    He is probably one of those people that watch Channel AKA and Top Boy and takes those images as a representation of the WHOLE black community the world over.

    Just leave him to crawl back under whatever rock he came from.

  31. southwesttwo :
    85% of the rioter were Black? Really Rezan? I didn’t want to get involved and I tried to refrain from having any sort of dialogue with an individual who clearly has a personal grudge and lack of knowledge of the ”Black community” he pretends to know so well, but this bullshit you were mouthing off about my people provoked me to step in and refute your nonsense.
    85% huh?
    ”MoJ figures revealed that, where ethnicity was recorded, 33% of those appearing in the courts on riot-related charges were white, 43% were black and 7% Asian. The figures varied significantly from area to area, often closely resembling the ethnic makeup of the local population: in London, 32% of defendants were white, in Merseyside, the figure was 79%.”
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/dec/05/who-were-the-rioters
    While I was trailing through stats on race, I came across a interesting article.
    ”One in four men accused of ‘street grooming’ underage girls for sex is Asian, a shocking report reveals.
    In total, 2,379 offenders are suspected of attempting to lure vulnerable victims, often using drugs and alcohol, over the past three years.
    And a ‘disproportionate’ 28 per cent of them were found to be Asian, in those cases where ethnicity was recorded. The ethnic group makes up just six per cent of the UK population.”
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2009455/Child-sex-study-Quarter-offenders-Asian-men.html#ixzz1qYjYpwh7
    So if my calculations are correct, Asians are 21 times more likely to groom/rape underage girls than Whites. Very interesting.
    What you need to understand is it’s not that we as Black people are not aware and concerned with the violent and appalling behaviour of some young Black men within out ranks, we just take offence to an outsider who thinks he’s qualified in making sweeping judgments about us when his own community is far from perfect. Clean up your own house before you speak on others.
    As for the rampant racism in the ”Black community” you speak of, PLEASE. As one person here stated earlier, all this is coming from a man who belongs to a selfish and insular community who rarely come out in support of others outside of their own community.
    Some of the most savage and brutal racial attacks on British soil have been committed at the hands of Asians. How about you google the name Kriss donald.

    I was gonna comment but Southwesttv just done it for me. Brilliant post. Rezen is a prick end of story.

  32. @ Rezan

    So, you reckon you know about black history than a black man? Ok, allow me to ask you a question.

    What land does the so called Negro originally come from?

  33. Again you have proved yourselves to be unforgivably arrogant. Too arrogant to admit your mistakes and always trying to distract the whole truth with your evasive expressions.
    What’s this talk of “Asians 21 times more likely to groom/rape under age girls” etc. Ha ha ha.
    What a vicious and mischievous response to my logical arguments which I produced with evidence. Which community does not go astray? But the example you have given is a minor one and is blown out of all proportion. The community elders have punished these criminals.But do your community elders even speak out against your thugs and murderers who have a routine life of violence and intimidation? The Daily Mail as we all know is totally racist and biased towards minorities. It’s a right wing media that is virtually an enemy of minorities.
    If you are accusing South Asians of pimping ask yourself how come this community had risen from nothing from sheer hard work to pursuit of higher education to achieve probably one of the most envious positions in this country which had always remained racist and hostile to them. This was determination and hard work at its pinnacle. South Asians have produced the best entrepreneurs in business, the best academicians,the best doctors,the best teachers the best writers,apart from billionaires who have and still funding the British government whenever the need rises. The West Indian community came far earlier to them. Judge for yourself. It’s all a question of culture,family structure and discipline.

    The Somali community who are the most recent immigrants are doing well for themselves. Its their wonderful religious beliefs and discipline. Do they go around stabbing people?

    How can children who have no guidance of fathers do well in life? Pity the poor women who have to bear all the burden in bringing them up. This problem appears to be restricted only to the West Indian community.

    Grooming girls for prostitution? Excuse me. Have you looked about this problem in your own community?
    You’ll be amazed.
    Do not defend yourself by evasive and distracted answers. Nobody is accusing your whole community. When a wrong is seen it has to be pointed out and has to be corrected.
    But there is certainly a problem of growing violence and crime among the black youth of today’s Britain. Denying it under some stupid pretext would be like saying ‘the sun does not rise from the East’.
    I even gave you individual examples. Why was the Malaysian student attacked by the black thug for no reason?. His poor parents had to fly all the way from Malaysia to take him back but the brave lad decided to continue his studies in London.
    Why were the three British Pakistani lads run over by the murderous black youth by the car?
    The magnanimity of the brave father saved the city of Birmingham from a blood bath. Who is greater in character? Ask yourselves.
    Why was I as a decent law abiding citizen mugged twice and nearly killed ? I still do not blame the whole Black community for this. I still have black people as friends.
    Do not be stupid and illogical. Be honest and forthright in calling a spade a spade.

    Remember the saying in the holy Quran:
    “The sinner does not feel any remorse over his sins. That is because his heart is already dead” (Ibn-al Khayyim)
    So do not let your hearts die. It’s not too late.

  34. Rezan makes good valid points, and for the most i have to agree. well said Rezan. You sound like an intelligent well educated person.

    Some of the other posts however are laughable at best. We really do have a problem with black on black crime/male parenting/gangs more than other communities that is a fact no one can deny. To tackle a problem one must first recognize it and i fear all black community’s are far from doing so.

    Its pathetic and all to easy to blame the whiteman for what happened over a hundred years ago. That was a Hundred years ago. You cant even remember it, let alone the teen youth today have NO reason to use the slavery/oppression argument…They have had the same opportunity’s as any other person in a inner-city, black white or yellow or blue.

    Our black youth are killing eachother for respect and gang stripes, its pathetic, Admit to it. don’t defend it or try to rationalize it.

    Cass.

  35. And after all of that, the self appointed professor of all knowledge black related couldn’t answer a simple question in relation to the origin of the so called Negro, but he “probably” knows more than me in relation to the history of my people right???????

    Romans 1:22 reads:

    Professing themselves to be wise they became FOOLS.

    I hope you Negroes are taking notes here. What is the usual racist theme being promoted here by professor Rezan yet again?

    “You blacks are too stupid, ignorant and foolish to talk about the problems within your own community, with your people and draft up solutions to deal with the problems, so we outsiders have to take authority and do it for you”.

  36. Several people have given great responses to Rezan’s rants but he still insists on using biased or false statistics/info to prove his non-existent point or simply resorts to calling other people defensive and illogical and subsequently producing an illogical and defensive rant.

    @Rezan you’re just pointing fingers and it’s making you look mad. For every violent Black crime case you find I can find one about Asians so please stop with that line of thinking. It is ridiculous.

    Gang culture is a problem in London but the issue I take with your comments is that it seems like you are trying to leave the problem firmly at the doorsteps of Black people. Do you live in London? Both Asian communities and White communities have these problems too. Black people have been campaigning and speaking out about gang culture for years, nothing’s been done. And now the problem is worse people want to turn around and point fingers.

    When folks have raised points about problems in the Asian community (I could go into several first-hand experiences but I know it would make no difference to you) you either barely address it or glaze over it. But you seem to hold the black community responsible for all ills in London society. What’s that about?

    I must say I am extremely disappointed with some the comments you have made on here. If you know so much about history particularly the history of immigration in Britain you really wouldn’t be saying the things you’re saying unless you’re prejudice.

    I’m not going to even go in on some of the comments you’ve made on religion.

    Also please do some research about what caused the riot in Tottenham (And only Tottenham). It was completely avoidable had the Police handled the situation properly and given Duggan’s family and his community (BOTH Black and white) answers instead of ignoring them.

    I really hope you take the plank out of your own eye before trying to remove a speck from someone else’s.

    Thusha Kamaleswaran has been through a horrible ordeal at the hands of criminals. Please don’t use it to push your prejudice agenda.

  37. “What’s this talk of “Asians 21 times more likely to groom/rape under age girls” etc. Ha ha ha.
    What a vicious and mischievous response to my logical arguments which I produced with evidence. Which community does not go astray? But the example you have given is a minor one and is blown out of all proportion. The community elders have punished these criminals.But do your community elders even speak out against your thugs and murderers who have a routine life of violence and intimidation?”

    @ Rezan
    So when Asian men commit crimes they’re just minor incidents blown out of proportion huh? But it’s exactly the opposite when Black men do, right? hahahahah

    And community elders consistently speak out against thugs and murderers. They’ve been doing so for years, but I guess you don’t see them on the news so they don’t exist, right? Please open you’re eyes you’ve been had. Hook,line and sinker.

  38. Then in comes a common thorn in the side of the so called Negro trying to make headway, another who has no clue about the true long term effects of slavery and the post psychological trauma associated with it.

    Are you such a simpleton Cass? Have you not read the Willie Lynch letter entitled “The Making Of A Slave”?

    In that letter Lynch categorically stated that the psychological breakdown, scrambling, indoctrination and programming of the Negro mind through various techniques employed during slavery would last for at least 300 years and beyond with the odd reapplication here and there.

    He wrote that letter in 1712, do the math for yourself Cass. 1712+300=2012. So you can trash that nonsense about “the youth not seeing it so it doesn’t matter and that we cannot blame the white man as that was 100 years ago”, as out of the horse’s mouth the very same white men have admitted that we are still suffering from the post psychological trauma of our past enslavement.

    Also, read through the posts here again as nobody is running away, ducking, weaving out of or denying that the black community has a serious problem. We just do not approve of outsiders coming in and pointing out our mess when there is a huge pile of cow’s dung sitting outside their own front door which they ought to deal with first before pointing their contaminated pestilent fingers at others.

  39. U cannot justify your irresponsible criminal behaviour using history . Something that happened 300 years ago. History has always seen the rise and fall of empires,the change of governments.Nothing ever remains the same. Today power is in the hands of the Western governments who seem to run the affairs of the world. Criminal policies that decide to bomb any country they choose to. Innocent civilians pay the price for the folly of their leaders. Iraq was ruthlessly and brutally bombed based on a lie. Afghanistan was illegally invaded and its half a million brutally killed by the use of the most vicious weapons.Libyan leader was removed ruthlessly from power and murdered. You know why? Because he was the ‘King of Africa’. He wanted to make the United States of Africa. He wanted to trade in Dinars and not in dollars. The White Western countries could not imagine losing their hold in Africa forever. They had to act. They created ‘rebels’ who ‘hated ‘ Gaddaffi and so made it look they were to blame. Yes there was treachery too.
    But do you know who was behind these criminal policies of the West. The famous Black man Mr Obama. This man organised drone attacks by the hundreds in the areas of the Afghan Pakistan borders killing hundreds of poor innocent peasants mostly women and children and old men.
    Do you know who sanctioned rape and murder in Iraq? It was Condoleeza Rice another black woman. You know who is itching to bomb Iran? Not just Hilary Clinton but Susan Rice another black woman who is pretty powerful in the US cabinet. So this talk of black and white does not hold much water nowadays. The blacks keep crying the whole of their life about slavery and discrimination etc the whole of their life. But what they do when they come into power? They behave worse than their ex-slave masters. They rejoice in bombing and killing other peoples of the world. With all their talk of human equality and social justice and human oppression where are these people when it comes to protesting against these injustices against the world.
    As far as I can remember I never see black people take part in anti-war marches,against the injustices perpetrated by Israeli govt.against the Palestinians or any other war for that matter. They just seem to give a sh….t to other people’s problems because they see themselves as the most important people in a problem.
    So dont give me this talk on black oppression. You are doing just fine.
    The leader of the world’s most powerful country is a black man. And what has he done. He has behaved more evil than his white predecessor. He began with lies and even further lies. He went back on his promises again and again. He was far more brutal in his bombing campaigns. So what’s the big deal. Don’t tell me he is controlled by the Israeli lobby or the white supremacist lobby in Washington. If he so helpless why does he stay in power.? Blacks are pretty conscious of things like oppression and injustice isn’t it? Doesn’t this man know his history? If he had a good heart he would resign. He certainly seems to enjoy what he is doing..
    So don’t waste your time dragging history as an excuse for your wild behaviour.

  40. And you still never answered the question. You thought that you were going to be dealing with ignorant black folks up in here but your backside has learned otherwise the hard way.

    We have given you an honourable burial, your attempt to resurrect yourself and hide the shame of your defeat by launching the “100 topics on the table” strategy is not working, we see through this technique you are desperately trying to employ.

  41. Rezan (or are you really that s**t head Nirpal Dhaliwal) you are just embarrassing yourself now and causing nothing but amusement. Now run on back to your insular selfish community with it’s own problems and leave us blacks alone.

  42. So Rezan has not only failed to address anything but has resorted to that tired “Obama/ the only other black person I can name in congress is in power doing bad things so why are you complaining” argument

    pahahahahahahahahahahahah. I’m out.

  43. 2012
    And you have still not given the answer as to why you have such violence, robbing,mugging pimping,stabbing and aggressiveness in your community in spite of living in a country that gives you free education,protection of the law,free training,social security handouts etc.etc.
    You never answered as to why innocent people are being beaten up by your glorious youth who are the best in the entire world and that everything they do is always justified because of what happened in Alabama and Missisppi some three centuries ago. Wait a minute . What the sh….t has this US history got to do with the behaviour of these ungrateful aimless misled people in this country? Sure beats me.
    Wake up . Admit your mistakes and move on.

    “The sinners do not feel remorse over their sins. That is because their heart is already dead”

    Looks like its too late now.

  44. @rezan Its clear your read a lot, a lot of nonsense and interpret what you want to suit your own deluded mind. As my mother says, the worst type of fool is an educated FOOL! Never argue with one, as you will only look as dumb as them.
    When you decide to come down to South West London and actually speak with members of the black community rather than drawing on media fed images, then we can have a full and truthful discussion. Untill down, sit your tired ass down. Your making too much noise and not speaking an ounce of sense. Bring some actual stats to the table to back up your argument, then we can take it from there. While your at it, look at the issues within your own community before you start looking at anyone elses.

  45. It seems black people, (myself included), have forgotten that when a black person commits a crime, we are all immediately just as responsible for the crime as the actual perpetrator because we share the same skin color! Because of that, we must immediately all run to the nearest paper, television station, computer and scream apologies on behalf of that one person.

    When that is not enough, we are to run to the streets, drop on our knees and engage in self-flagellation as the Roman Catholic monks did.

    It seems that we black folk have forgotten that we are not individuals, but a group that the actions of one stand for us all. This applies only to crime mind you.

    See, even though statistics attest to the fact that white males are more likely to be rapists, we are to look at these criminals as individuals where race is of no importance. So even though a non black person may clutch their bag a little tighter when you walk past, that’s okay! Because if one of us is a criminal, then we’re all criminals! Women on the other are not to run screaming when a white man passes them.

    It seems we black people have forgotten that important fact. We are not individuals when a black person conducts in negative behavior.
    Now when a black person does something positive, you best believe we are an individual, and before we become that individual, we are repeatedly broken down i.e African vs Caribbean, black men vs black women, short hair vs long hair and the list goes on.

    Another fact that seems to have slipped our mind is that if we ever refer to our past -old or recent- we have to get over it! While ever other culture can talk about theirs, we are not entitled to do that. We should also come to expect to hear their favorite line which is “you have a chip on your shoulder”.

    Got to love it.

  46. Here Rezan goes again, trying to fire new topic shrapnel but again Rezan, you got verbally battered here, you got ripped a new rectum, your milk float overturned and hit the deck, your pram got smashed, your express train of calamity derailed, hit the buffers and then the sand drag. This train terminates here, all change please.

    I have to big up many people on here for derailing this chieftain’s convertible skip and demonstrating that we are not the ignorant fools that the European mainspin media continually makes us out to be:

    First and foremost, big up Janice for bringing this fool’s article to our attention, Beauty Pulse, Kunjufu, Haterisbanned(especially your last comment, cream in the coffee. The so called JewISH people can keep throwing the Holocaust at the world but we cannot talk about our past??? What about the Negro’s holocaust?), Terra( you laid a smackdown on this fool), Vanessa, Sofrolushes, P&B Ent, Mika(that comment about them not coming out in support of others really slammed the nail in the coffin), Sooperwoman, Napthali(telling the truth about them and their behaviour back in our home), Lati, SW2(the stats you brought in were as far as I was concerned a blatant slam dunk) and Sacks for summing up this prakatan’s angle.

    You see, they do not want to see this kind of co-operation between us. As far as they are concerned, us joining together like this is behaving in an upperty manner and we need to return to where we belong, under their heel(according to their thinking). No, the so called Negro is tired of being disrespected and continually painted in a bad light so that others can feel better about themselves, we have had enough.

    A new breed of Negro is on the rise, one that will not tolerate the nonsense that we have put up with in the past, one that will stand up, match you and even exceed your intelligence(not that we were not intelligent to begin with but we have always been conveniently shown as a people who held little to no intelligence, which really kicked off with Darwin’s theory of evolution). Well, you need to all give yourselves praises, a round of applause and pat yourselves on the back, there is NOTHING wrong with uplifting yourselves and your own people and if you won’t do it then Verbs will. Brrrrrrrrrrrrap fire to my people!

  47. @verbs2012 thank you!! rounded off the discussion nicely. Positive vibes Peace and love people. Good night

  48. Do it then .Prove that you are not just muggers looters and murderers. Many people in your society have proved it haven’t they? You have good lawyers,engineers,musicians,dentists ,and teachers.etc
    .And get over that inferiority complex if you want to achieve what you want. Nobody is superior ;nobody is inferior.Its the thinking that makes it so. Also shed off that jealousy. Jealousy they say burns all good like fire burns wood. Shed off that arrogance and admit your faults. Nobody is perfect. Everyone works hard to attain a status. So be real.

  49. Who’s Rezan talking to? There’s already a lot of successful black people. Another racist thing is someone can’t die without racists focusing on color. All killings and murders are atrocious–everyone should be concerned and outraged, not just color-specific “communities.”

  50. Rezan regrettably died the death of a thousand blades and is finding it extremely hard to accept his incredible massacre at the hand of INTELLIGENT Negroes on this sight.

  51. Can’t believe so many people responded to this Rezan guy… wouldn’t it be nice if after his comment, no-one responded. That would say a lot more than trying to make a fool see sense. By the way, Rezan the racial divide of the riots was 45% black and mixed race (the Evening Standard reported) – last I knew, mixed race (as what’s deemed in this country) are half white so actually the majority of rioters were white…. but the media is a powerful tool. Let’s all put our energies into helping ourselves and not debating with uninformed attention seekers like Rezan.

  52. I hear what you are saying Miss Steele, but also a fool’s mouth must sometimes be shown to be of the reprobate foundation that it is. This whole dialogue is a record and a witness not only against Rezan, but also against others who hold to the same notion that black people are only criminals. This recorded dialogue will certainly make many others think twice before peddling off dumb statements and inaccurate facts.

    We should as the informed be enlightening the “uninformed”. As far as I have seen from my life at least, the “ignore it” stance on not only this but also on other issues concerning blacks more time has only served to fuel the stereo types and reinforce these false notions even further in the minds of individuals. Sometimes the child needs some hard chastisement instead of non attention and ignorance.

  53. I don’t call it racism, that is just a word to hide behind, in reality everyone hates everyone, that is how Humans are, we are rubbish and live on this planet trying to earn money until we die, so everyone taking about racism is very dumb. Just look at the Human race, we are no good and all deserve to die, including me.

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